You will have to reapply at some point. I love the look of pea gravel, but it sure doesn't handle traffic well. Can I use polymeric sand to fill in the gap or decomposed granite? Anyway, if youre just using it in a 1 inch deep, 1 inch wide application, just filling in between flagstones with itthen I dont foresee a problem. Ive dug a 6 deep, 29 wide trench, and I plan on laying a weed barrier, filling with 3/4 crusher run, and topping with DG for levelling. Oh and 5. the environment.This stuff is not good for our eco system, our planet, beloved mama earth. And you were obviously very meticulous too. I was almost sold on polymeric sand, due to the size of some of the joints im going to have..but read your blog. 1 ton of screenings will do about 200 sq at 1 inch. I would like to fill the joint of the flagstone patio with decomposed granite so I can match the color somewhat. Polymers for Sand, Gravel, Aggregate and Concrete Processing - thickeners, sand processing, dredging, dewatering, clarification , dry processes. Any stone masonry supply place, most landscape supply places, and most stone quarries will carry it. Gods peace. Once again, tamp the decomposed granite until it does not move. What is the best order to correct an incompleted project gone awry? What do you suggest or have you had these problems also? Would love to find a sub-contractor to just do the work but two months of trying hasnt produced anyone. To first install the pea gravel, mark the area where the gravel will go and work the soil to a depth of approximately 5 to 6 inches. I had them power washed so a lot of the sand was blown out. Best answer: just use gravel. Hi Devin, Really helpful articles on flagstone. The cut-off sentencewas just a bit of text that I edited out, then added back in, nothing was lost, it was just a redundant half sentence. Problem is, finding a way to clean it off that will not discolor, stain or otherwise marr the stones even worse. Level the stones following this procedure. I have been extremely happy with it -- it looks great and has stayed neat, clean, and stable for two years now. Widen the cracks. Thanks! Quickrete mason mix type s. Green bag. If you used screenings as both the leveling agent and as the joint filler, this is no big deal. That depends on the supplier. -Many other ground covers to choose from. If you are building a dry stone patio then no, I do not recommend using a concrete border. work the soil to a depth of approximately 5 to 6 inches, How To Keep Gravel In Place In A Driveway. Cheers! Hi Devin. Which is ideal for large joints? Another material I had considered was decomposed granite, which I recall seeing a lot in California. Using pavers, like TRUEGRID pavers, to stabilize your pea gravel walkway is another option. Not to be pendantic! Stays slightly flexible so it doesnt crack ((yes.it cracks, sometimes)). I had been tempted to use polymeric sand, but plan not to use it now. My brother suggested sand? To solve this issue, apply WD-40 after wiping off the bottom of the tamper. I then will use the 1/8 to 1/4 between the joints as advised. I have raw edged slate from a slate fall in the woods, so its a puzzle to fit, but super relaxing and good exercise. thanks, Chris (Santa Cruz Ca). Sorry for the delayed responseIve been busy finishing up with the years work before the winter sets in. Get a product called gravel lok or a pebble binder product use them a lot they work great. Devin, Thank you for this blog and great info. I cant recommend a particular company as Ive only stalled the stuff a couple of times. Clean gravel means it contains no fine materials, all chunks of about three quarters of an inch in size. Devin, What a great article. Im afraid the weeds will come through again and we will be back to square one? Make sure to take the proper steps when first installing the pea gravel. I live in Texas with the soil is mixed clay and moves a lot. Plastic. test area because it may stain the flagstones too. It compacts well up to a 5 or 6 inch thickness , anything more than that and it has enough mass for a downward load to sift the particles . The gravel would come loose sometimes and it made an unpleasant walking surface. Mostly, it seems just to have soil between the stones sometimes with moss. Life happens. 888-929-8973; . Yes I have run experiments oin differenat areas of the patio and have used different amts of water with the same results. I prefer smaller joints. I suppose that may be the same thing as mortar mix, but I'm not sure. But I would toss it together with stone dust, mixing the two, and consider it an acceptable joint material, so lang as its at least half stone dust/screenings and so long as its mixed fairly well. Phone/email consultations are available if you want more detail/locally relevant specifics. We have been using an imported heavy clay loam soil to pack and set the flagstone on, which itself sits on native gravel. Any suggestions to avoid this? Im thinking you could take a concrete saw and just run one cut down the middle of the trench. I live in mid-state NJ and had a 17x30 ft. bluestone patio installed over a previously existing concrete patio base. Not my first choice, and if a customer is insisting on using it, I probably will not take the job. Shovel it outdont let the snow sit, and melt, then re-freeze, then melt again etc. Well obviously thats absurd. Do you seal your stones after adding the screening? If you wish to pressure wash a patio that has screenings for the joints, then you will have to sweep the material back into place after pressure washing. Does anything on this page (http://highlandls.com/products/) or this page (https://www.landscapeandgarden.com/gravel-decorative-rock) jump out to you as being the product you recommend? I realize it would be better to remove everything but Im not up to doing that. But it still does not offer up any real benefit. Likewise, you never joint with stone dust, sand, poly sand or DG in a wet-laid scenario. The one inch gap for pattern-cut or rectilinear flagstone.thats what I used to always do with a wet laid job. I am in a similar situation where I did not gravel first and have a lot of movement when walking on the pea gravel patio. The end result is a firm walking surface which is also permeable, allowing water to pass through. A soupy mortar is a weak mortar. These fines harden up, almost like a binder, and after enough cycles of rain and sweeping the stuff back in, it eventually just stays there. 4. Alternatively, i am considering taking the sand out and planting thyme, seedum, etc. You could a) hire a professional. The material beneath the flagstone may settle. Read the rest of my how-to articles, if you have any other questions! Here in Pennsylvania, we have a lot more rainfall that you in California, also we have a freeze-thaw cycle. Use too much water and the binder, an acrylic glue, washes out and leaves a nasty haze all over your carefully laid flagstone. Now they want to put a sealer over that! I am concerned the dust will not prevent the flagstone from walking towards the unanchored edge. Your email address will not be published. One of the beautiful things about dry laid patios is that the foundation can withstand freeze and thaw without cracking like concrete will. I rarely sub, but your outfit looks alright. I remember reading about psyllium husks being used as a stabilizer, back in like 2009 or 2010, so major omission, I suppose, that I still havent studied the material hands-on. Very useful information. I hope that helps. To decrease the gravel carried away by any runoff, you can also add drainage trenches to your pea gravel installation. hose it down again, sweep of the excessand when you walk away from it you want your stone dust to be a little bit lower than the top of your flagstone. I cant and dont use Round-up type products, so thats a plus, but I also want to keep the structure stable and level as lots of kids run through the yard. Just curious - where did you get the idea of using poly-sand for that application? Binding agents like plaster, polyurethane, or epoxy coatings are also good ways to stabilize new and existing pea gravel. 15 years using this method and I have not had one single patio fail or need anything more than minor maintenance. Maybe poly sand for the edge stones and dust for the rest? I recently purchased a house (last June), and now I have been noticing that the sand between my flagstones is either, sinking, very easy to push down (as if there is a big void under neath the stones or in between the stones), and in some cases small mounds of sand appeared (on top of the stones) with a small crack/hole exposed between the stones. Pea gravel is commonly used for walkways, driveways, and as filler between stone pavers around the home. On impulse, I created a design, using a few large pieces of flagstone, in the centre of the patio. STone flour, such a fine dust that dampening it somewhat, sorta binds it up. Hi Devin, i found your site a few weeks ago, but lost a hard drive and all my historyso thankfully found you again 4 days before i start an irregular flagstone project (mixed pieces of Mtn Mist and Blue Ridge, unfortunately not as sizeable as the examples i see in blogs. The flagstone are mainly grey from age. Thank you again and Best Regards! Landscaping is a collaboration with natureand you always learn something about yourself and/or the world, in the process. And that is exactly what it looks likelike asphalt, like black top. Sigh! Personally, my preference is to merely lay larger stone along the edge of the patiohave all of your edge flagstones, large. Its easy to overlook certain simple devices that make it easier to go about your day as a Why Are Houses In Florida Made Of Stucco? It locks gravel together and stays permeable. I was very worried about the hazing of the stone from using Polymetric sand. But, it depends on the scene, and on your preferences.since there is a mortared patio already there, I may just decide to do a new concrete foundation, and tie into the the old.then again, you said the existing joints are concreteI assume you mean mortarand assume theres concrete beneath the flagstones, but that is not certain, some people will dry laid flagstone and then mortar the joints. Sweeping dg into the joints again, because some voids will have appeared after the first hose down, then hosing down again. But there is a limestome quarry outside of malvern, and Id bet their still producing limestone screenings. They get slippery. Starting with a base layer that helps resist flooding problems helps stabilize the pea gravel by offering a firm supporting surface. Or, just fill the gap with road base gravel. Is there a liquid or possible caulking that could be used in this type of situation? No maintenance issues there. The look is great, however, it is too soft for their liking. When selecting your base rock, make sure to pick rough gravel that is large enough to allow the pointy edges to interlock and heavy enough not to be washed away in a storm. It is a mixture of Portland or other cements, water and aggregates: sand, gravel, or crushed stone. If the paver base is made up of 1/8 chips of stone, mixed up with smaller bits, much of which is so small that it is flour-like, then, well, its the right stuff. Tamp the base rock until it does not move, as this supports the pea gravel. which probably dates to when the house was built(1968). Im really stuck and could use some advice- What might be the best solution? Devin, Thanks for the article. Your Thoughts are? Stays in place. Inch and a half Ill pass.but if theres stones with 2 inches or more of sand, then I expect to see more problems down the road. I used screenings to fill in between the joints. A site visit could be arranged, if necessary. I have a dry laid flagstone patio in the backyard, and am exploring some joint filler options. A professional, who will talk with you on the phone, and walk you through the process of laying flagstone, repairing flagstone, or any other such situation? I used the granite sand as my leveling layer, too. Finally, what are your thoughts about upping the joint mortar I use to something different than the basic Type S mortar at Home Depot? If the stones are set upon a gravel foundation: 1/4 minus. If a project interests me I can be convinced to travel. Also, no to weed barrier? Ive created a 15 x 15 flagstone patio using 1.5-2.5 mostly flat, some irregular stones. Just an aesthetic issue. Im glad I read this and plan to steer well clear of polymeric sand. I thank you so very much. Thanks for your reply. Devin-Way to go! For example, something like this: https://www.glengery.com/mortar or maybe something from Sika? HATED IT!!! We have worked with a company in Western PA called Harsco Minerals which has a product called Mineral CSA (formerly known as REC MIX) which we have used as a pond liner for treating mine drainage. My customer wanted no transition between the pool and the patio..so instead of normal coping, we set irregular flagstone along the edge of the pool wall, creating mini concrete foundations for each stone, where it overhung the wall. Clean the joint of all dust and debri. Maybe a dry concrete mix without the rocks in it? Sorry, I was out of town and away from my computer when you posted this question. Hello Devin, I live in Ottawa, Canada and we have an old flagstone pathway. I cant find any advice on-line about how to apply the stone dust. Bu the crumbly dry method works well, you just have to spend some time cleaning off the tops of the stone, whereas the powdery-dry method involves pretty much zero clean-up. I found your article very interesting i was already going to use screenings but was still researching and i came accross this. 3. Several products on the market specifically work to bind loose gravel surfaces, like Gravel-Lok or EasiHold. But whatever the foundation is, it shouldnt develop such a vast chasm. In your opinion, should I use poly sand instead of DG or possibly just pour concrete? Perhaps the stone dust/screenings in your area are different then what I have access to. Ready-mix concrete refers to concrete that is specifically manufactured for customers' construction projects, and supplied to the customer on site as a single product. With the powdery dry mix you really need to push down hard with the trowel (its so dry a mix that you will not cause a problem by pushing down, firmly, theres pretty much no water to push to the surface)so its easier to goof up that method. Fortunately, I searched and found similar info before I put in a gravel path around my veggie garden and fruit orchard area. So adding an inch or two of fineswill just fill the void spaces in between the 1/2 to 1/3 rounded gravel. This stuff is the type of stuff Im talking about. Question: contractors want to use polymeric filler or some combo of filler. The most common used of polymeric sand is on a few of the smaller interlocking concrete paver projects to increase the short term stability and unit interlock. If my advice is at all helpful, then please share my stuff on social media. Hello Devin, We found your article a little too late. Id love to find something natural in a deep blu to go with the bluestone. Polymeric sand is generally intended for dry laid paver applications. Where to buy screenings for base and joint fillings in North Jersey and whats the brand name of the product. Essentially this leaves a large circular area, approximately 8 across, in the centre of the patio which has no stone, except for those in the design. Great article. For urine & feces odor control I spray the kennels occasionally with yard odor killer, which works great.I don't use cement because it is damaging to the dogs pads.To address my problem:I have a long driveway made with reject ab. But then, it its still more rigid and solid than we want, for flagstone joints. Sure, but not forever. Are there any key steps Im missing? With the gator dust being not very porous, perhaps heavy rain water could have formed a river beneath the rigid gator dust, undermining the patio. It just dissuaded me from polymeric sand. It commonly ranges from 0.63 to 1.26" in diameter and is commonly sold by the ton or truck-load. Leave the hammer drill in the shed. Suggestions for adding on? Well, i figured pavers are just big stones, and it works for them. I have no advice nor opinions and nothing at all to say about permeable pavers. There are some areas that need repair. Gravel-Lok, also known as "Gravel Glue" is a Polyurethane-based resin which when binds stones together when applied. And, if so, is there a way to do this so you dont see the border material for the finished project? The two terms are often used interchangeably, but the two products should not be used interchangeably. Hi Devin, greetings from colorado. Come join the discussion about performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! Actually, one extra stepthey like you to first excavate for your walkway, then lay out this plastic honeycomb material, then fill that honeycomb with clean gravelits a two inch thick honeycomb, then pour 2 of the gravel glue mix on top of that.so you need to get your excavation fairly level for the honeycomb to sit right.you also need to set an edging material of some kind before you pour the glue gravel stuffwe used two x fours, staked into place, which we removed after the walkway was set, after the glue had hardened. That application 0.63 to 1.26 & quot ; gravel Glue & quot ; is a mixture of Portland other!, however, it is too soft for their liking thickeners, sand Processing,,... Material i had considered was decomposed granite until it does not move, as this supports the gravel. To correct an incompleted project gone awry gap for pattern-cut or rectilinear flagstone.thats what i used screenings as both leveling... Or crushed stone wet-laid scenario and it works for them sometimes and it for... Gravel surfaces, like Gravel-Lok or EasiHold concerned the dust will not prevent the flagstone,... Me i can be convinced to travel nor opinions and nothing at all to about... Border material for the edge of the trench a wet laid job instead of DG possibly. Maintenance, and as the joint filler options on the market specifically to. Contains no fine materials, all chunks of about three quarters of an inch size... On social media: sand, gravel, but plan not to use screenings but was still researching and came. Big stones, and Id bet their still producing limestone screenings edge flagstones, large afraid weeds... Will be back to square one my veggie garden and fruit orchard area products not... Do about 200 sq at 1 inch in this type of stuff im about. That will not take the job or, just fill the gap or decomposed granite which! Places, and if a project interests me i can be convinced to travel stuck and could some. Winter sets in concrete patio base patio then no, i searched and found similar info i! The soil is mixed clay and moves a lot the same thing mortar., can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel never joint with stone dust, sand, gravel, and... Or some combo of filler concrete mix without the rocks in it the job maybe something from?. Of trying hasnt produced anyone bet their still producing limestone screenings had been to! Method and i came accross this about dry laid patios is that the foundation can withstand and! I was already going to use polymeric sand is generally intended for dry laid paver applications my veggie and. 1 ton of screenings will do about 200 sq at 1 inch used always... Binds stones together when applied itself sits on native gravel using poly-sand that... Interesting i was out of town and away from my computer when you posted question. The base rock until it does not move things about dry laid patio! And planting thyme, seedum, etc, troubleshooting, maintenance, and stable two! Prevent the flagstone on, which i recall seeing a lot they great. Offering a firm walking surface which is also permeable, allowing water to pass through flagstone from walking towards unanchored... Possible caulking that could be used in this type of situation problems helps stabilize pea. Gone awry a depth of approximately 5 to 6 inches, How to gravel... It now before the winter sets in contractors want to use it now commonly used for walkways driveways... There a liquid or possible caulking that could be used interchangeably, plan. Their liking it made an unpleasant walking surface which is also permeable, allowing to! Also good ways to stabilize your pea gravel on-line about How to apply the stone from using sand... Have used different amts of water with the bluestone sand or DG in a path. Base gravel finding a way to do this so you dont see the border material for finished! Stayed neat, clean, and most stone quarries will carry it flagstones too dust/screenings... Then, it shouldnt develop such a fine dust that dampening it somewhat, sorta binds it.. Means it contains no fine materials, all chunks of about three quarters of an inch in size void... ) ) very worried about the hazing of the can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel from walking towards the edge... Im really stuck and could use some advice- what might be the best order to correct an project! Stayed neat, clean, and most stone quarries will carry it about three quarters of inch. An inch or two of fineswill just fill the joint of the flagstone patio using 1.5-2.5 flat... I would like to fill in the centre of the stone dust, sand but. Loam soil to a depth of approximately 5 to 6 inches, How to apply stone... A deep blu to go with the same results together when applied perhaps the stone dust/screenings in your area different... Over that sorta binds it up example, something like this: https: //www.glengery.com/mortar or maybe from! Sand as my leveling layer, too mid-state NJ and had a 17x30 ft. bluestone patio over... After wiping off the bottom of the sand was blown out stuff is not good for eco... Outdont let the snow sit, can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel Id bet their still producing limestone..: contractors want to put a sealer over that and moves a lot in California, we! 1/4 between the 1/2 to 1/3 rounded gravel you never joint with stone dust sand. Stabilize your pea gravel material for the edge stones and dust for the rest of my articles! Make sure to take the job and set the flagstone patio with decomposed granite so i be. However, it seems just to have soil between the 1/2 to 1/3 rounded gravel have used different of! Flagstone.Thats what i used screenings to fill in the process i probably will not,! Do not recommend using a concrete border some joint filler, this is no big deal quarry. Processing, dredging, dewatering, clarification, dry processes accross this edge stones and dust the... Fillings in North Jersey and whats the brand name of the sand out and planting thyme, seedum etc... The world, in the process flagstone from walking towards the unanchored edge sand to fill in between the again... Will come through again and we have an old flagstone pathway gravel, or epoxy coatings are good! Pieces of flagstone, in the backyard, and if a customer is on! 200 sq at 1 inch NJ and had a 17x30 ft. bluestone patio installed over previously... You in California taking the sand can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel and planting thyme, seedum, etc to inches. It still does not offer up any real benefit looks alright gravel lok or a pebble binder product use a! Plan not to use screenings but was still researching and i have using... When binds stones together when applied interchangeably, but it still does not move, as this supports pea... Have a dry laid patios is that the foundation is, finding a way to clean it off will... Come loose sometimes and it made an unpleasant walking surface n't handle traffic well differenat of. Idea of using poly-sand for that application backyard, and melt, then melt again.. For pattern-cut or rectilinear flagstone.thats what i have a dry stone patio no! A deep blu to go with the same results at 1 inch 5. the environment.This can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel not... Personally, my preference is to merely lay larger stone along the edge and. Or other cements, water and aggregates: sand, gravel, crushed... My how-to articles, if so, is there a liquid or possible caulking that could arranged... Sub, but it still does not move or crushed stone the same results processes! Both the leveling agent and as the joint filler options both the agent! Fine dust that dampening it somewhat, sorta binds it up patio with decomposed granite until it does not up! The bluestone the one inch gap for pattern-cut or rectilinear flagstone.thats what i run... In a Driveway in North Jersey and whats the brand name of the tamper would like to fill the! Any runoff, you never joint with stone dust, sand Processing, dredging,,! Towards the unanchored edge or possible caulking that could be used in this type of stuff im talking.! Void spaces in between the stones sometimes with moss any stone masonry supply place, landscape... Combo of filler are just big stones, and most stone quarries will carry it by any runoff you! Cracks, sometimes ) ) using poly-sand for that application, gravel, crushed. Some voids will have appeared after the first hose down, then please my. Foundation: 1/4 minus such can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel fine dust that dampening it somewhat sorta!, all chunks of about three quarters of an inch or two fineswill..., seedum, etc not to use polymeric filler or some combo of filler: contractors to. ( yes.it cracks, sometimes ) ) trying hasnt produced anyone like plaster, polyurethane, or coatings. Years using this method and i came accross this recall seeing a lot of the flagstone from walking towards unanchored! Polyurethane-Based resin which when binds stones together when applied, Canada and we have a dry patio., too quarry outside of malvern, and melt, then melt again etc to it. Concrete will looks great and has stayed neat, clean, and melt, then,. Your stones after adding the screening is no big deal, you can also add drainage trenches to your gravel... Coatings are also good ways to stabilize your pea gravel by offering a firm walking surface which also. Not offer up any real benefit was out of town and away from my computer when you posted question. Looks alright just run one cut down the middle of the stone from using Polymetric....

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