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I've been trying to open an estate account for weeks and have been hitting roadblocks everywhere. To me, this is more of a bank policy question than a legal question. Sure he had a will but most of the time the banks will want the will to be probated or other supporting paperwork to be provided. They told me I would be able to get a bank card and on-line access and cheques once I had provided them with a CAET. The banks have always agreed to this (with only one exception) because the funds aren't going to the executor or anyone else besides the court. You were correct when you suggested an account set up as "Administrator of the estate of Jane Doe". my father passed away and only had $960, which was held in trust by an organization. I went into the bank again and asked to see her but she was in a meeting so another representative took my name and number. Can we open an estate bank account if we did not probate and are not the Executor? What is your question? If you're currently a joint bank account holder, we can help you decide whether a joint account is the best option for you. I have challenged them on this, and they keep telling me there is no estate department (I know this aint true, I have spoken with the estate department). This assumes there is enough in the account, of course. In our case the executor says she has to await the Grant of Probate before opening an estate account. . It never works when people try to make square pegs fit into round holes by using financial instruments and legal documents to do things they were never meant to do.Anyway, enough lecture. Hi Lynne, our mother passed away in February this year. The problem with joint accounts between parents and kids is that the banks are really inconsistent in their treatment of them. the cheque was made payable to the estate. My mom's name was on the deed of the house at one time but then at some point her name was removed as she was purchasing another house for investment purposes. They won't give any money to you, but they will pay the bill directly to the funeral home. They are saying they'll transfer it once you meet their requirements even though they are making that impossible.Consider making an appointment with the branch manager. I'm also more then willing to walk away from the account if I can't close it. It's a fairly small estate, about 80k in RIFF's, chequing account. All of the banks are telling me I need to wait for probate, and to process the transactions through our own accounts and keep detailed records. Should I be raising cane at TD? Let's say your husband goes into the bank with the will and the bank releases the funds to him with no probate. Both my sister and I are in high income tax bracket, while our Mother is retired and would be exempt from any taxes. What's the real deal here? I'm frustrated just reading your note; I can just imagine how frustrated you must be. They told me to open an estate account.he doesn't have any assets nor investment, is it necessary to open an estate account? This bit about the banks not allowing executors to open an estate account until probate has been granted is relatively new, and only works for the bank. They have asked me if I would look after the estate and now have the lawyers are preparing the application to have me appointed as Estate Trustee. Other banks are also refusing to open estate accounts. Also consider the fact that when a lawyer holds funds in trust, the interest earned on the funds is paid to the Law Foundation and not to clients. For example there could be some doubt about the validity of the will or dispute among the beneficiaries about the will. Try to take the wishes of the beneficiaries into consideration if you can. However, you can call and enquire if you don't want to make a special appointment with a banking representative. They also told me that it doesn't matter if the will states that the funds are to be split between myself and 3 kids, that because they have it listed on their system that only the kids are beneficeries, that they have to go by that. The money belongs to the beneficiaries, and they have every right to insist that you disburse it (once taxes and bills are paid, of course). If so, it will pose quite a hardship on her as a student. The 1st distribution I picked up from a lawyer as I was in a hurry to get money. Learn more here about here about Estate accounting and the right to receive accounts Executors must account for the estate, and beneficiaries are entitled to receive, review, and challenge the accounts including any compensation claimed by the executor. There are no inheritance or estate taxes in Canada. And has instructed the last lawyer to not do anything even though he's the one who sent it without tracking by regular mail. You are the one with the liability and the responsibility so tell them to back off and let you do your job. As I said, not all banks are responding properly to the change in the law (from 2007) and some are paying out joint bank accounts between parent and child to the child. Why do I need an estate bank account? You can open an estate bank account after initiating probate and petitioning the court for formal recognition as executor or administrator. Paying out of pocket should be the last resort. Hope this helps others who deal with RBC regarding non probated wills. He did not leave a will. As a result, few executors know, relying on the issued (or not-issued!) was all joint or myself as designated beneficiary. It's always a guessing game.The duty on the executors is to examine all options and go with what makes the most sense to them. Stop letting them tell you things they have no right to decide. The trust now holds $75,000. My sister and I are both trustees for my mothers estate account. I have yet to close her personal bank account - this is a minimal cheque ($200) and it seems RIDICULOUS to have to go through all of this. Thanks for your opinions. My recently deceased mother had create a trust through Wood Gundy for my daughter to help her through university. Why are they giving me such a hassle, I have my letters of administration and everything, Hi Claire,Why is the bank giving you such a hassle? However, what do you mean by joint wills? Is it necessary to wait for probate to be completed? Can my sister disburse fees from my fathers estate accounting to reimburse my brother for return air fare and to me for gas mileage, when we attended his rental to remove his belongings and sell his assets? My father had a joint investment account with my sister with a right of survivorship which held shares and cash which the bank has put into her name to deal with as she sees fit. I have survivorship of this account. I'd suggest sitting in with your banking officer and having a chat. If I leave the remainder there the bank(RBC) will nickel and dime it with service fees until there is nothing left. What sort of resistance am I likely to encounter from the bank when I try to close them? How can I get them to allow me to do this. All the risk of the account falls on the executor, not on the bank. Having been executrix of my husbands assets 30+ years ago, I should have known better; he had accounts at both CIBC and a smaller one at RBC. She had no assets other than a savings account. This seems to directly contravene the CRA website for these types of accounts. I have received the probate, and can access to the Estate bank account, and wonder if I could just go to the bank and withdraw money for my reimbursement? There were no investments just bank accounts in both our names, (my father and mine)so the money could pass seamlessly in the event of his passing. Rather than looking to legislation, it would probably be a better use of your time to go into the bank and have a chat with the manager and see what their policies are.Lynne. Lynne. My mom passed in June, after living in long term care for just over a year. 8. which the individual transactions. My question is:What is the best method of paying and having proof that the payment was given to beneficiary? If the executor is the beneficiary can they then use the estate funds for personal since all financial obligations will come to them anyway? It is not unusual at all for a bank to insist on having a grant of probate before releasing funds. The reason we were fighting is because our understanding is that the Will should trump every other document completed before the Will. She had a will that named me executor. Offer available to Eligible Personal Clients without a Personal Banking Account with Royal Bank of Canada as of April 1, 2022 or in the five year period before April 1, 2022, who open their first new Eligible Personal Banking Account by May 31, 2022 and who comply with all other terms and conditions. Given that the amount of funds in question is substantial, I wouldn't be surprised if they tell you they want probate.The bank might give your mother a break on this requirement, especially if she continues to keep all of her investments and accounts with them.Lynne. She also signed up for internet service to manage dads estate. I had Mom's bank card as she always had me use it in the stores because her dementia was getting worse and she was too confused to use the interac or bank machine. The taxes on capital gains on the shares were paid after filing my father's final tax return. No, I don't think you can deposit it to your personal account or cash it. Earn a $300 welcome bonus with a new bank account 2. HI Lynn, My case is very complicated,it started with the land my mum bought 5 acres of land in Fiji and she got her first cousin Vana to handle things to sell the land which mum got many offers even for $450,000.00 but mum trusted her daughter-in-laws family the lawyer she hired and her cousin in Fiji.when our beloved mother passed away notary Sublock Sublock never even got mum to sigh her Will even though we paid $170 fee for that one home visit Mr.Sublock refused to help us and we sent mum's old Will which was Notarized and the Fiji Courts refused to accept it and my dad was next of kin now they said Vana and fiji lawyer Ulamila Tuipuku said that my dad needs to do a Probate and I sent $3,500 for court/lawyer/probate and months down the road Vana and Ulamila said that the court won't accept the Probate that they wanted her in my Dad's WIll which he "WE HAD A DEAD LINE OR LOSE THE LAND " we said that was crazy and we went through with that and so so and we went through Mr. Sablock again because he had the history regarding the land and my mum's information etc.My dad wanted to sell the land because there was squatters on the land and two churches was already built on land without permission and you wonder who was minding the place.When I made an offer to a performance on the land Vana was so upset she was yelling and I said okay you have 6 weeks and she said she already had the money and we'll we waited and waited for the paper work.When I tried from May 2012 til Feb 2013 to get the lawyer to send papers yo sell the land she was making all kinds of excuses and we sent thousands of dollars for court cases and the land .The thing is after my dad passed away the first thing Vana said is remember that I'm the excutor on the Will and no one can go above me and I was do she said none of your kids can go above my head and this just to show she knew what she was doing .We'll after all that she said that the land is in her name and the lawyer who was supposed to be working for my dad was working for her and went against both my parents. As of today's date the bank has yet to release the funds and they keep asking for such things as my identification etc., which was I had given them already. Again, absolutely unacceptable.The situation needs to be cleaned up, and the quicker the better. You tell them. Can the Courts force her to replace the lost bank draft? My dad passed away and has no will, no assets, no liabilities, no bank account. Our lawyer said there was no need to probate as the will clearly spells out who the beneficiary is and there is only the savings account which would be used to pay expenses and the rest to the beneficiary. While I can understand banks protecting themselves by not allowing withdrawals - I can't wrap my head around changing the interpretation of these tax slips? Keep all estate funds separate from your own. We need to access funds to pay final funeral expenses, property tax, and more importantly estate taxes so we can begin probate.How we do access the funds? They have no say over what an executor does with an estate account. Other things might also flow through that estate account, such as the CPP death benefit. The TD bank allowed my brother to even close accounts, and cash in GICs and made all assets payable to him. If I am the sole executor and beneficiary and receive a bank draft in the name of the estate of the deceased, can I simply deposit the bank draft in an estate account and then withdraw funds from the estate account since I am the sole executor and sole beneficiary. Whether or not he exceeded his authority is a matter for a judge in a civil court to decide so it muddies the water. You need to realize that if this goes sideways, YOU are the one who will get the blame, not them. Thank you for your answer! I dont mean to me but to the beneficiaries of the monetary gifts. What if the deceased's will names you as the "Estate Trustee"?I'm starting to work on settling my mother's estate and one of her financial institutions is asking for a CAET "Certificate of Appointment as Estate Trustee". Thank-you Alyssa. Is there any reason why my sister would not be able to transfer to me half of the shares and cash in the investment account at this time? Yes, you have ALL the rights. Does the executor pay out of pocket?I would really appreciate your help. Then all of a sudden none of the kids will get the joint accounts any more. I charge $400 for that.Lynne. So what I'm saying is that they have no reason to try to supervise what you're doing once you have provided the proof that you're the executor. Does anyone know if they are obligated to move assets over to the estate account, before the probated will is received? investments of 25k held at multiple institutions), is it right for the bank to request probate for the operation of the estate account? Bank Accounts Notify the bank and identify yourself as the executor. Try going to the bank where your son had his accounts, since they will have records of him, etc. It's possible to use the lawyer's trust account, but that's not usually the most efficient way because, as you say, you have to pay the lawyer each time he/she does something with the account. Can we just deposit the cheques in our own account? A friend passed and named myself or my husband executor and also sole beneificiaries. Does the executor have the right to take the funds to any bank? In order for that to happen, there has to be a will that appoints you. So with Mom's money and the estate cheque it would be around $5,000. My mom had around $800 000 of chequing and investment accounts. Our client then takes the estimate to the bank and asks for a bank draft payable to the court. I have having some real tough issues with TD Bank. It is absolutely unworkable for executors.What we do for our clients here is calculate the probate fee and prepare a document that we call an estimate but looks much like an invoice for that amount. Doing so is giving away money that belongs to other people. A cheque was released to to each person on title for a project (including my grandmother whom they knew was deceased) . The bank at which I wish to open an estate account for my late brother insists on cutting cheques to his beneficiaries and dividing up his money right away. Or, if the primary account holder of your joint bank account has recently passed away, we can assist you in determining your entitlement, if any, to the account assets. I went to deposit them and was told by CIBC that they drained the account and closed it 5 months after death? Why on earth do people try so darn hard to avoid probate? I advised my husband to find another bank, because after I talked to the TD Manager, wanting to understand what they told him, the branch manager talked over me too. They seem to think that at the point where Registered accounts are cashed out to the estate is when taxes will be owed. As far as the bank is concerned, your father's account is still HIS account and not an estate account until the probate has come through. All the TD bank did was phone the hospital, and that was good enough for them. With great rewards, interest and unlimited and free transactions and Interac e-Transfers, it rivals and beats all other youth accounts in the country. Well, I posted the above,on July 16tth along with the other person who also had issues with Royal bank on July 8th. If that is the case, what exactly are you expecting CRA to give you? My sister and I are co-executors of our fathers will. To open an estate account, you need to go to the bank and request that they open an estate account. If he will not clean it up voluntarily, you might consider asking the court to remove him. You said they are waiting for a form to be received at the bank, but from whom? Her financial advisor confirmed that the change was made and i was also added as joint on her chequing account. Paying out of pocket should be the last resort. Sat-Sun 8 a.m.-8 p.m. ); Your joint executors might have a strained or non-existent . must i wait for court probate? Keep in mind though that when you present your accounting to the beneficiaries at the end of the estate, your expenses must show up there. Hope this not too confusing. It's a lot of money for me when there are no assets. If it's not going to the named beneficiaries, then it has to go to the estate and be taxed. By doing so, does this mean we now have to probate the will? TD does not and all transactions must be processed in person. According to law, that was his wish. His house is worth 500k. Can I simply deposit the cheque to her bank account and withdraw it? The money belongs in his estate, which has to be used to pay off any debts or taxes he might owe. Could I be charged with fraud?Thank you for your blog BTW, it's been very informative and helpful. My mother learned the hard way that her money was not as 'safe' in the banks as she thought. All from my laptop. I needed 2 estate accounts, one in C$ and one in US$. I am the executor to my deceased elder sister's estate. Are there restrictions or did I just draw an uninformed bank employee? The first stage of estate planning is preparation. My mothers estate is relatively simple and comprised of an investment account with a major financial institution and 2 bank accounts, all of which I am listed as joint (prior to her death I was my mothers POA for property). He had a will and I am his sole beneficiary. You're in charge of the account, not them. Executors don't have to wait for the grant of probate. RBC has made a royal mess for me to contend with. Instead I seem to be stuck mingling assets with my own money, which seems like a terrible idea. My question is how to put this money back into the estate without raising the concerns of the Ministry of Finance. Yes, I would expect that you would have to obtain probate to deal with the account, due to the high dollar value. Why on earth doesn't she just do the paperwork before this all hits the fan? Score: 4.6/5 ( 43 votes ) Using an estate account can help keep the deceased's financial matters separate from an executor's personal financial matters. So the only money is what was left in her account and this Estate Cheque from the funeral home. Lynne- Using the example from Marsha: Can the account have links to automatic bill payments with registered companies, so all three trustees don't need to be in person to pay every single bill? but i have a tax refund cheque payable to the estate of xxxxx. Prior to Mom passing away I went to the Mom's bank and spoke to a representative who had me sign a doc so that it would be on file that I had her Enduring Power of Attorney. If you are the executor, it's up to you to decide whether you want to take the personal risk of releasing money. his bank (Laurentienne) informs me that I must open an estate account at their branch and that I must pay a $350 service fee for same. I've been advised by the bank they need to "take" a copy of the original will.Why do they need to copy it and send it to their estate dept.? The alberta bank is insisting on probate. The other financial company with all the investments left, did not require probate and it was a significant sum. What can I do? They have verified me as executor, and I have provided all of the probate documents, and THEY setup the account. If Empire Life insists on issuing a cheque to the estate, are they at all obliged to reimburse me for the probate fees I will have to pay on the money (300K) because they made a mistake in allowing the account to be set up that way? Hi Lynne,I have a question. Or do you actually mean mirror wills? I seem to have a combined bank estate/tax problem. Unbelievable! This move was made 5 years ago when my father died with the intent to avoid having to probate the estate again all of this documented by my mothers lawyer. Not to mention this was a real wish of our father and our Mom is retired without any other income. When the final payouts are made after the tax clearance certificate is received. On her demise this account now shows as mine but of course it really belongs to all the beneficiaries. My elderly (74) sister has made 2 partial distributions (3 siblings equal parts) and left enough for the CRA in the Estate account (says she has applied for a certificate). He had a brother & sister who are now the beneficiaries. Why is the bank refusing to add my name as the administrator to my sister's estate bank account? It's already hard enough losing a loved one but to not be able to manage her estate on behalf of her son is difficult when I've been appointed by the court and provided the document to the bank. Contact the financial institution for more information. You have to remember that although the executor has an obligation to look after the house, the bank does not. The category names can change to accommodate the estate activity. Hi Bob,I would be very surprised if the bank did not allow you to sign a letter of indemnity under the circumstances. Any advise? It will be the job of the estate's executor to set up and monitor the account. Mum's UK state pension was overpaid by 1 week, having finally received notice of the amount, I now have to reimburse that myself because RBC refuses. Your mother's money wasn't safe because your brother is a crook. Your bank is doing what any bank would do in the circumstances. That's interesting. She only gets $60 back because that is what she had deducted every year. Having said that, there could be other factors that might affect the situation (there always are). No probate is required. However, to get the balance or the transactions, I have to call in and get whatever information I can. When they are one and the same person, the executor must only use the estate funds to pay estate costs and debts. We spoke with a tax specialist for the bank on the phone, and he said if the branch would update her accounts to show 'estate of' in the titles of the accounts he could reissue the slips to show the required information - however the branch is refusing stating probate requirement. When he passed, he had a bit of money in the bank. The contents of this website must not be interpreted, considered or used as if it were financial, legal, fiscal, or other advice. Safe Deposit Boxes You will need the key to any safe deposit box so you can list the contents and access any important documents it may contain. What do I need to do with this cheque? It seems somewhat ridiculous. You will find forms for transferring a vehicle after the death of the owner. it's a small cheque and likely the only one going to be issued to the estate. Hi Lynne.My mother passed away in September and my brother and I are co executors. Thanks, Yes, the executor has complete control over the bank account.No, the executor cannot take executor fees until either the beneficiaries agree (usually by signing a release) or the court orders it.Yes, the executor can close the account at any time, but it would be pretty unusual to close it if there were still estate funds.Lynne. We listen to you and create a comprehensive plan that sets out how you will transition your wealth. The ONLY cheque to come in was a refund from the cable company (5 months after I cancelled her account, PRIOR to her passing), and it is made payable to her estate, with my name and address underneath. Her affairs are simple and the estate is modest. The simple answer is that the people in the branch have no idea how to deal with estates. Isn't it the point? The bank had a copy of the will and death certificate .. now what do I do with these cheques I recently got? Otherwise, this could end up being worked out with lawyers for the bank, which in my experience is like hitting your head repeatedly on a brick wall.Lynne. We have a joint bank account that I hope I can deposit his estate cheque(s) into. Neither of those situations is ideal, but you can only work with the situation you're in.Lynne. It should take 10 minutes if you have the proper paperwork, and it sounds as if you do. The bank ended up selling the investments March 26, 27 and April 7 which ended in a $90 000 loss. The rest of it does not. Estate accounts are 'prepared by the estate trustee'. This is what the law says you are supposed to do. Any credit card debt or personal loan debt will be paid from the deceased's bank accounts before the account administrator takes control of any assets. Practical, real-world information about wills, estates, inheritance, executors, and elder law in Canada, Great article. Neither happened. There isn't an estate department in the branches, but there is one in Toronto.If you have Letters of Administration, you now have the right to collect the deceased's assets. The other is that a judge figures it out for you, which of course means legal fees to be paid.Lynne. That is not the law any longer, when we are talking about inter-generational accounts. An estate account makes it easy for the executor to endorse and deposit these payments. Of course they are not allowed to change your father's beneficiary designation. Will i need a letter of administration to open an estate account or will my bank let me sign a letter of indemnity? That is my main concern now. I opened up an estate account when my mother's CPP Death Benefit came in. slips. Therefore she can open the account, receive funds on behalf of the estate, pay bills etc all before she gets the probate.Lynne. (It's possible to open up a separate trust account for a single estate so that interest can be earned but this seems like a lot of work when the bank can just do that for you directly).Bottom line is that for most clients most of the time, using a bank account directly is the best choice. Thanks! He died in Quebec, and the Public Curator there has handled all the paperwork. The banks set their own limits on how much they are willing to risk without obtaining probate.Lynne. 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